backscatterer.org should not block IP Server

[Ofendido]

Is unfair that Backscatterer.org block IP Server with hundreds of
users. I have a VPS with over 400 customers and applying harsh
penalties for spam, but if a customer does send spam,
backscatterer.org blacklisted the server IP for 4 weeks without notice
to the Datacenter, unfairly affecting hundreds of my clients do not
send spam .

It is not just affecting all other clients from my server

[Rob]

Post by Ofendido
Is unfair that Backscatterer.org block IP Server with hundreds of
users. I have a VPS with over 400 customers and applying harsh
penalties for spam, but if a customer does send spam,
backscatterer.org blacklisted the server IP for 4 weeks without notice
to the Datacenter, unfairly affecting hundreds of my clients do not
send spam .

Again, if your customers are affected by a listing on backscatterer.org
it is not really your fault, but the fault of the system they are
sending mail to. backscatterer.org is not there for blocking spam but
for blocking incorrect DSN (delivery failure messages).

Mail systems that use backscatterer.org to block mail messages (not DSN)
are broken. Period. Do not listen to the people here that claim there
is a good reason to block all mail from systems listed on backscatterer.org,
it is not true.

So the best thing to do is to investigate what mail is being blocked
because of your listing, see if this is all mail to one or a few domains,
then inform the owner of that domain (and your users) that his mail setup
is incorrect and that he should visit the webpage backscatterer.org for
more info.

When the domain owner chooses to ignore that advise, bad luck for him.
Just inform your users that his mailsystem is unprofessionally managed
and that he does not want to receive mail. It is up to your users to
decide if they want to communicate with such a system.

[MrD]

Post by Rob

Post by Ofendido
Is unfair that Backscatterer.org block IP Server with hundreds of
users. I have a VPS with over 400 customers and applying harsh
penalties for spam, but if a customer does send spam,
backscatterer.org blacklisted the server IP for 4 weeks without
notice to the Datacenter, unfairly affecting hundreds of my clients
do not send spam .

Again, if your customers are affected by a listing on
backscatterer.org it is not really your fault, but the fault of the
system they are sending mail to.

Really? How do you figure that? The OP wasn't complaining that his users
were having their outbound mail rejected, just that the server was listed.

Post by Rob
backscatterer.org is not there for blocking spam but for blocking
incorrect DSN (delivery failure messages).
Mail systems that use backscatterer.org to block mail messages (not
DSN) are broken. Period.

You may take that view; but you can't know. I *know* that there are at
least some sysadmins who choose to block non-DSN mail using
backscatterer, in full knowledge of that list's policies. I don't know
why they do that, but I suppose it may be that they think sites that
emit backscatter are maladministered, and they don't want mail from such
sites. But I don't know.

Post by Rob
Do not listen to the people here that claim there is a good reason to
block all mail from systems listed on backscatterer.org, it is not
true.

Again: you may take that view; but you can't know.

Post by Rob
So the best thing to do is to investigate what mail is being blocked
because of your listing, see if this is all mail to one or a few
domains, then inform the owner of that domain (and your users) that
his mail setup is incorrect and that he should visit the webpage
backscatterer.org for more info.

"Inform ... setup is incorrect" - hopefully the OP is modest enough to
refrain from telling the admins of other systems that they have done
something "incorrect". It might be wiser counsel to INQUIRE whether what
they have done was deliberate or an accident?

Post by Rob
When the domain owner chooses to ignore that advise, bad luck for him.

How so?

Post by Rob
Just inform your users that his mailsystem is unprofessionally
managed and that he does not want to receive mail. It is up to your
users to decide if they want to communicate with such a system.

Your advice is partial, Rob, and I think you know it. You are presenting
as a universal fact a point of view that you *know* some people disagree
with. In particular, advising people to tell the administrators of
remote systems what their business is, is simply bad advice; even if
those admins have made a mistake in their setup, they are unlikely to
welcome the kind of approach you seem to be advocating.

[E-Mail Sent to this address will be added to the BlackLists]

Post by MrD
Your advice is partial, Rob, and I think you know it.
You are presenting as a universal fact a point of view that
you *know* some people disagree with.
In particular, advising people to tell the administrators
of remote systems what their business is, is simply bad
advice; even if those admins have made a mistake in their
setup, they are unlikely to welcome the kind of approach
you seem to be advocating.

However they are much more likely to be receptive to
complaints from their own end users, about messages
their end users needed / wanted / expected, but were
not delivered to their end users.

[Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz]

Post by MrD
Really? How do you figure that?

Google for Eliza.

Post by MrD
It might be wiser counsel

He has an ax to grind; I doubt whether he cares if his advice hurts those
who believe it.
--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, truly insane Spews puppet
<http://patriot.net/~shmuel>

I reserve the right to publicly post or ridicule any abusive
E-mail. Reply to domain Patriot dot net user shmuel+news to contact
me. Do not reply to ***@library.lspace.org

[Daniel Weber]

Post by Ofendido
Is unfair that Backscatterer.org block IP Server with hundreds of
users.

Backscatterer.org doesn't block any mail, it provides a DNS-based list
of hosts sending backscatter.

Post by Ofendido
I have a VPS with over 400 customers and applying harsh
penalties for spam, but if a customer does send spam,
backscatterer.org blacklisted the server IP

Backscatterer.org doesn't list your server for sending spam, it lists
your server for sending backscatter.

Just configure your server that it doesn't send backscatter and you
won't get relisted.

Bye,
Daniel

[Claus v. Wolfhausen]

Post by Ofendido
Is unfair that Backscatterer.org block IP Server with hundreds of
users.

You have no clue how blocklisting works, do you?

Let me explain:

1. Blocklists are not there to be fair, they are there to help their users
making decisions.

2. Blocklists do not block anything they give an advice only.

3. Blocking is done by the recipients that have freely chosen to block based on
the advice given by a blocklist.

Do you see that is a hugh difference to what you claimed?

Post by Ofendido
I have a VPS with over 400 customers and applying harsh
penalties for spam, but if a customer does send spam,
backscatterer.org blacklisted the server IP for 4 weeks without notice
to the Datacenter, unfairly affecting hundreds of my clients do not
send spam .

Are you claiming your server is to big to get listed?
It does not matter how many people are using your server.
BACKSCATTERER is also listing GOOGLE and they deserve their listing ...
So how did you get the idea that we might break for a system with 400 users?

If a machine emitts backscatter then it gets listed. If it does not, then it
will stay off the list, it's that easy.

FYI Backscatterer.org does not list for spamming, as long as the spam is not
claiming to be NULL SENDER or POSTMASTER in MAIL FROM.

Post by Ofendido
It is not just affecting all other clients from my server

So what are you trying to say here?
If it is not affecting your clients, why are you whining here?
--
Claus von Wolfhausen
Technical Director
UCEPROTECT-Network
http://www.uceprotect.net

[Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz]

In <c88e1e84-5edd-4467-80d2-***@m13g2000vbf.googlegroups.com>, on
10/28/2009

Post by Ofendido
Is unfair that Backscatterer.org block IP Server with hundreds of
users.

No, it is unfair that you send e-mail to forged reverse paths.

Post by Ofendido
I have a VPS with over 400 customers and applying harsh
penalties for spam,

Then I suggest that you apply them to whoever runs the server that got you
listed.

Post by Ofendido
but if a customer does send spam,
backscatterer.org blacklisted the server IP for 4 weeks

Only if the spam is backscatter.

Post by Ofendido
without notice to the Datacenter,

There used to be DNSBL's that sent such notices; they were accused[1] of
sending spam and stopped.

Post by Ofendido
unfairly affecting hundreds of my clients do not send spam .

It was unfair for one of your customers to affect your reputation; it was
not unfair to respond to their behavior by listing you. The culprit is
your customer; deal with him.

[1] With some justification.
--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, truly insane Spews puppet
<http://patriot.net/~shmuel>

I reserve the right to publicly post or ridicule any abusive
E-mail. Reply to domain Patriot dot net user shmuel+news to contact
me. Do not reply to ***@library.lspace.org