Long delisting time

[eriksen.marius]

Hi

I have two questions about the general function of Uceprotect:

In comparison to other blacklists, why does Uceprotect have such a
long delisting time?
Most (all?) of the others lists have a delisting time ranging from
minutes to 8-12 hours.
The only blacklist to stand out is Uceprotect which uses 7 days in its
automatic delisting.

Also: as far as I have seen Uceprotect is the only blacklist charging
money for (express) delisting.
Why are Uceprotect the only one to charge money for this?

BR
marius

[DevilsPGD]

In message

Post by eriksen.marius
In comparison to other blacklists, why does Uceprotect have such a
long delisting time?
Most (all?) of the others lists have a delisting time ranging from
minutes to 8-12 hours.
The only blacklist to stand out is Uceprotect which uses 7 days in its
automatic delisting.

Uceprotect isn't a list of spam-sending servers, it's a list of servers
that have sent spam within the last 7 days.

Post by eriksen.marius
Also: as far as I have seen Uceprotect is the only blacklist charging
money for (express) delisting.
Why are Uceprotect the only one to charge money for this?

Uceprotect's explanation is that someone manually makes the change. In
practice, it's more a case of avoiding abuse of the express delisting
option.

[Seth]

Post by eriksen.marius
In comparison to other blacklists, why does Uceprotect have such a
long delisting time?

It has the delisting time its owners choose to use, just like every
other list.

Post by eriksen.marius
Most (all?) of the others lists have a delisting time ranging from
minutes to 8-12 hours.

Except for those that have a longer time. And there are any number of
people who have posted "When I list something, it stays listed unless
and until one of _my_ users requests me to remove it." No automatic
delisting, no delisting at the request of the sender.

Post by eriksen.marius
The only blacklist to stand out is Uceprotect which uses 7 days in its
automatic delisting.

I take it you haven't investigated very far.

Post by eriksen.marius
Also: as far as I have seen Uceprotect is the only blacklist charging
money for (express) delisting.
Why are Uceprotect the only one to charge money for this?

Just as above, every list has whatever policies it chooses to have.

Seth

[MrD]

Post by eriksen.marius
Hi
In comparison to other blacklists, why does Uceprotect have such a
long delisting time? Most (all?) of the others lists have a delisting
time ranging from minutes to 8-12 hours.

It's a question of policy. Many lists have no delisting mechanism
whatsoever (delisting time is effectively "until hell freezes"). A list
with a short delisting time is what is sometimes called a "lively" list
- easy to get listed, easy to get delisted. They're good for detecting
fresh spam-sources. A long delisting time is appropriate for persistent
spam-sources.

Post by eriksen.marius
The only blacklist to stand out is Uceprotect which uses 7 days in
its automatic delisting.

You haven't searched very hard, apparently!

SORBS:
"Wait for a period of 1 year for each spam received related to the
listing (e.g. if 3 spams were received, wait 3 years)."

Post by eriksen.marius
Also: as far as I have seen Uceprotect is the only blacklist charging
money for (express) delisting.

http://www.us.sorbs.net/faq/supportreq.shtml

Post by eriksen.marius
Why are Uceprotect the only one to charge money for this?

They aren't. SORBS is a prominent example, but there are others.

[Fred Mobach]

Post by eriksen.marius
In comparison to other blacklists, why does Uceprotect have such a
long delisting time?
Most (all?) of the others lists have a delisting time ranging from
minutes to 8-12 hours.
The only blacklist to stand out is Uceprotect which uses 7 days in its
automatic delisting.

That is long in your opinion, in my opinion it is extremely short. In my
private DNSbl (RBLfUN) there is only a delisting upion request of our
users.

Post by eriksen.marius
Also: as far as I have seen Uceprotect is the only blacklist charging
money for (express) delisting.
Why are Uceprotect the only one to charge money for this?

Just my opinion (based on what I've read from their website and in their
usenet posts) :
the express delisting takes manual intervention, that takes employee's
time -> costs money.

But they also have the option to not pay and just wait until it's over.
--
Fred Mobach - ***@mobach.nl
website : https://fred.mobach.nl
.... In God we trust ....
.. The rest we monitor ..

[E-Mail Sent to this address will be added to the BlackLists]

Post by eriksen.marius
In comparison to other blacklists, why does Uceprotect
have such a long delisting time?
Most (all?) of the others lists have a delisting time
ranging from minutes to 8-12 hours.

(Shrug)

They are all different, some auto delist after a small time,
some longer times, some don't delist till requested,
some won't delist till the maintainer thinks the IP / CIDR
is no longer going to be a source of abuse.

e.g. PSBL delists almost immediately on request from anyone,
regardless of anything don't by e.g. the mail server admins.

e.g. SpamCop delists based on various spamtrap hits / time
formulas.

Others DNSbls need to be contacted by the ISP,
or perhaps a retest that that the service is no longer
exploitable.

Some take longer to delist a IP with a history of abuse,
than a first time listed IP.

Some have different policies depending on if the rDNS PTR
for the IP looks generic, or it looks like a ISP's
outbound server (or the server is in a MX record).

Some even have different categories for the general public,
vs ISPs, on what they can delist when, ...

Out of at least 700+ popular (?) publicly queryable DNSbls,
I doubt there are two the same in listing and delisting policies.

Post by eriksen.marius
The only blacklist to stand out is Uceprotect which
uses 7 days in its automatic delisting.
Also: as far as I have seen Uceprotect is the only
blacklist charging money for (express) delisting.
Why are Uceprotect the only one to charge money for this?

They aren't (or weren't) the only one to do something related
to money.

Some like Blars DNSbl charged like $500usd? to investigate
listings, however if the listing was correct (e.g. spam
their trap had recieved a message) then it would not get
delsited, and it getting delisted or not still cost the
requestor $500usd ($500/hr?).

SORBS has a "fine" that is sometimes imposted for delisting
for sources of spam depending on the circumstances,
but not for other categories, like exploited services,
dynamic IPs, ...

I imagine some DNSbl operators don't like wasting their time
with requests from every listee to get delisted, just
because they don't like being listed (although they were / are
a source of abuse, or someone else at the same ISP was / is).

[Seth]

Post by E-Mail Sent to this address will be added to the BlackLists
Some like Blars DNSbl charged like $500usd? to investigate
listings, however if the listing was correct (e.g. spam
their trap had recieved a message) then it would not get
delsited, and it getting delisted or not still cost the
requestor $500usd ($500/hr?).

I believe that if the listing were determined to be in error, the fee
was refunded.

Seth

[E-Mail Sent to this address will be added to the BlackLists]

Post by Seth

Post by E-Mail Sent to this address will be added to the BlackLists
Some like Blars DNSbl charged like $500usd? to investigate
listings, however if the listing was correct (e.g. spam
their trap had recieved a message) then it would not get
delsited, and it getting delisted or not still cost the
requestor $500usd ($500/hr?).

I believe that if the listing were determined to be in error, the fee
was refunded.

It seems you are correct,
<BlockQuote> block.blars.org
If you would like a site be added or removed from BlarsBL,
you may hire Blars at his normal consulting rates
(currently $250/hour, 2 hour minimum, $1000 deposit due
in advance for non-established customers) to investigate
your evidence about the site.
If it is found that the entry was a mistake, no charge
will be made and the entire deposit will be refunded.
</BlockQuote> Circa 2006, Nov

[Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz]

I believe that if the listing were determined to be in error, the fee was
refunded.

Yeah, but the smart money says that a random complaint about a listing "in
error" will turn out to be an error by the listee rather than the list
operator. How often[1] did it turn out that the listing actually was in
error?

[1] I know of cases, but they were rare typos.
--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, truly insane Spews puppet
<http://patriot.net/~shmuel>

I reserve the right to publicly post or ridicule any abusive
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[Seth]

Post by Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz

I believe that if the listing were determined to be in error, the fee was
refunded.

Yeah, but the smart money says that a random complaint about a listing "in
error" will turn out to be an error by the listee rather than the list
operator. How often[1] did it turn out that the listing actually was in
error?
[1] I know of cases, but they were rare typos.

In blarg? I wasn't aware that anybody actually paid.

(In other DNSBLs, I also know of a few typos, and they got fixed as
soon as they were pointed out.)

Seth

[Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz]

Post by Seth
In blarg?

In any DNSBL. I've seen far more claims of errors than I have actual
errors. I've seen no case where someone had to pay in order to have an
erroneous entry corrected.

Post by Seth
(In other DNSBLs, I also know of a few typos, and they got fixed as soon
as they were pointed out.)

At no cost to the listee. Which was my point.
--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, truly insane Spews puppet
<http://patriot.net/~shmuel>

I reserve the right to publicly post or ridicule any abusive
E-mail. Reply to domain Patriot dot net user shmuel+news to contact
me. Do not reply to ***@library.lspace.org

[Seth]

Post by Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz

Post by Seth
In blarg?

In any DNSBL. I've seen far more claims of errors than I have actual
errors. I've seen no case where someone had to pay in order to have an
erroneous entry corrected.

Neither have I.

Post by Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz

Post by Seth
(In other DNSBLs, I also know of a few typos, and they got fixed as soon
as they were pointed out.)

At no cost to the listee. Which was my point.

Sure; but the statement was about the charge Blars made, which would
have been refunded if the error were in the listing.

Seth

[Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz]

In <b000eec0-25cd-4c39-9a81-***@z34g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>, on
08/31/2009

In comparison to other blacklists, why does Uceprotect have such a long
delisting time?

When did that change? It used to be a very short TTL; 1 week of 4 weeks,
depending on the list.

Most (all?) of the others lists have a delisting time ranging from
minutes to 8-12 hours.

Please post your data; I don't believe it.

The only blacklist to stand out is Uceprotect which uses 7 days in its
automatic delisting.

It stands out for being so short.

Also: as far as I have seen Uceprotect is the only blacklist charging
money for (express) delisting.

Even if it were true it would be irrelevant. But would you prefer that
they no offer express delisting?

Why are Uceprotect the only one to charge money for this?

Because they're the only ones that chose to do so, assuming that it's
true, which I doubt.
--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, truly insane Spews puppet
<http://patriot.net/~shmuel>

I reserve the right to publicly post or ridicule any abusive
E-mail. Reply to domain Patriot dot net user shmuel+news to contact
me. Do not reply to ***@library.lspace.org