UCEPROTECT cannot be successful in countries like Iran

[The Mehrdad]

As you all know, Iran is not a free country about Internet. No ISP is
completely managed by individuals. All ISPs must work with government
and a private company like us, cannot select any other ISP because not
all ISPs have an acceptable service quality. You black list our
company which is really fighting spams, which is not listed in ANY
other listings, just because of our ISP which we cannot change it at
all. You think we are not innocent just because we are paying this ISP
for our Internet service? Do you pay 1000$ for 1Mbps Internet service
in your country? This is what we pay!! for 400 users in our company!
And now you list us as a spammer. Is this really fare with you? Did
you like it to be the same for yourselves? What do you think we can
do?
I recommend to not list Iranian ISPs in this listing.

[MrD]

The Mehrdad wrote:

[Snip whingeing]

What do you think we can do?

You indicated that the problem is that your ISP's output mailserver is
listed on UCEProtect. Perhaps you could implement your own mailserver;
or alternatively you could purchase mail services from a third-party
provider. This would enable you to bypass the listing of your ISP's server.

Third-party email services are not expensive - much less than $1000 per
year.

I recommend to not list Iranian ISPs in this listing.

Why should Iranian ISPs be granted a special pass to emit spam, but
nobody else?

It's not a punishment system; it's not a question of blame. These lists
allow spam victims to avoid the costs of processing abusive (and often
harmful) bulk email. They only work properly (from the point of view
of the list user) if each list complies strictly with its published
policies. Special exemptions conflict with that requirement, and should
not be considered.

[Claus v. Wolfhausen]

Post by The Mehrdad
As you all know, Iran is not a free country about Internet. No ISP is
completely managed by individuals. All ISPs must work with government
and a private company like us, cannot select any other ISP because not
all ISPs have an acceptable service quality. You black list our
company which is really fighting spams, which is not listed in ANY
other listings, just because of our ISP which we cannot change it at
all. You think we are not innocent just because we are paying this ISP
for our Internet service? Do you pay 1000$ for 1Mbps Internet service
in your country? This is what we pay!! for 400 users in our company!
And now you list us as a spammer. Is this really fare with you? Did
you like it to be the same for yourselves? What do you think we can
do?

That may sound hard but if you really pay 1000$ for an 1 Mbps Internet
service then it shouldn't be a big deal to spend another 19$ for a cheap little
server in a clean datacenter outside of your ISP and smarthost your mail there.

Alternativeley you can register your IP at http://www.whitelisted.org

If you do so, your IP will be excluded from Level 2 and Level 3 as long as you
are not a source of abuse yourself.

Post by The Mehrdad
I recommend to not list Iranian ISPs in this listing.

If they match Level 3 listing criterias then they deserve to be listed.
--
Claus von Wolfhausen
Technical Director
UCEPROTECT-Network
http://www.uceprotect.net

[D. Stussy]

In article

Post by The Mehrdad
As you all know, Iran is not a free country about Internet. No ISP is
completely managed by individuals. All ISPs must work with government
and a private company like us, cannot select any other ISP because not
all ISPs have an acceptable service quality. You black list our
company which is really fighting spams, which is not listed in ANY
other listings, just because of our ISP which we cannot change it at
all. You think we are not innocent just because we are paying this ISP
for our Internet service? Do you pay 1000$ for 1Mbps Internet service
in your country? This is what we pay!! for 400 users in our company!
And now you list us as a spammer. Is this really fare with you? Did
you like it to be the same for yourselves? What do you think we can
do?

That may sound hard but if you really pay 1000$ for an 1 Mbps Internet
service then it shouldn't be a big deal to spend another 19$ for a cheap little
server in a clean datacenter outside of your ISP and smarthost your mail there.

$19 (regardless of currency) for a server in IRAN? Were you paying
attention? That ain't going to happen.

[Seth]

Post by Claus v. Wolfhausen

Post by Claus v. Wolfhausen
That may sound hard but if you really pay 1000$ for an 1 Mbps Internet
service then it shouldn't be a big deal to spend another 19$ for a cheap

little

Post by Claus v. Wolfhausen
server in a clean datacenter outside of your ISP and smarthost your mail

there.
$19 (regardless of currency) for a server in IRAN? Were you paying
attention? That ain't going to happen.

No, you apparently weren't.

$19/month for a server in .us or .eu. Mail from .ir can be tunneled
through that server, and emerge from a clean IP (unless OP emits
spam).

Seth

[Atro Tossavainen]

Post by Seth

Post by D. Stussy
$19 (regardless of currency) for a server in IRAN? Were you paying
attention? That ain't going to happen.

No, you apparently weren't.
$19/month for a server in .us or .eu. Mail from .ir can be tunneled
through that server, and emerge from a clean IP (unless OP emits
spam).

Figuring out how to obtain that server and how to keep paying for it
may not be trivial exercises for somebody based in Iran. I don't know,
just thinking out loud.

Once it's there, there might not be that much of a problem with what
you propose. But getting there may not be as easy for them as it is
for you and me.
--
Atro Tossavainen (Mr.) / The Institute of Biotechnology at
Systems Analyst, Techno-Amish & / the University of Helsinki, Finland,
[phone] UNIX Dinosaur / employs me, but my opinions are my own.
< URL : http : / / www . helsinki . fi / %7E atossava / > NO FILE ATTACHMENTS

[D. Stussy]

Post by Atro Tossavainen

Post by Seth

Post by D. Stussy
$19 (regardless of currency) for a server in IRAN? Were you paying
attention? That ain't going to happen.

No, you apparently weren't.
$19/month for a server in .us or .eu. Mail from .ir can be tunneled
through that server, and emerge from a clean IP (unless OP emits
spam).

Figuring out how to obtain that server and how to keep paying for it
may not be trivial exercises for somebody based in Iran. I don't know,
just thinking out loud.

Precisely the problem, unless such an expense is pre-paid. They better
have the appropriate currency as well. War zones are always a problem.
Even electricity service is intermittent in many areas, let alone
telecommunications or ["snail"] mail. Contract language for the
arrangement is another problem as many things don't translate with the same
meanings.

Post by Atro Tossavainen
Once it's there, there might not be that much of a problem with what
you propose. But getting there may not be as easy for them as it is
for you and me.

Until the pre-paid credit is depleted.....

Then, there's the whole issue of anti-terrorism laws and whether anyone at
the mail provider can know the difference based on content that is passed,
especially if they could be held liable.

[Fallout]

Post by The Mehrdad
As you all know, Iran is not a free country about Internet. No ISP is
completely managed by individuals. All ISPs must work with government
and a private company like us, cannot select any other ISP because not
all ISPs have an acceptable service quality. You black list our
company which is really fighting spams, which is not listed in ANY
other listings, just because of our ISP which we cannot change it at
all. You think we are not innocent just because we are paying this ISP
for our Internet service? Do you pay 1000$ for 1Mbps Internet service
in your country? This is what we pay!! for 400 users in our company!
And now you list us as a spammer. Is this really fare with you? Did
you like it to be the same for yourselves? What do you think we can
do?
I recommend to not list Iranian ISPs in this listing.
--
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400 users for 1 Mbit? Oh, I can just imagine the in-fighting going on
there! :D

Look at what you're saying, make an exception for Iran. It's not the
fault of the people receiving garbage from your ISP that Iran hasn't
free Internet, is it?

More likely, if you do indeed pay 1,000$/month you can try to force
their hand to stop backscattering. That has much more chances of
success than asking to ignore Iran, which has 0% chance

[Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz]

In <976ae9cb-f014-4918-b73b-***@z2g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>, on
10/19/2009

Subject: UCEPROTECT cannot be successful in countries like Iran

UCEPROTECT works just fine. Providing you with connectivity is not their
responsibility.

As you all know, Iran is not a free country about Internet. No ISP is
completely managed by individuals. All ISPs must work with government
and a private company like us, cannot select any other ISP because not
all ISPs have an acceptable service quality.

Why should the rest of the world suffer because of your government's
policies?

You

TINY. This news group is not UCEPROTECT or an association of UCEPROTECT
users.

You black list our company

No. Various organizations may block list IP blocks that you use, but that
is quite different from block listing you or your organization.

which is not listed in ANY other listings,

How do you know? Why does it matter?

just because of our ISP

If your ISP is irresponsible then they should be blocked. If that causes
you problems then you should take it up with your ISP or your government.

You think we are not innocent

You don't know what we (TINW) think. Your possible innocence does not
entitle you to a free ride.

And now you list us as a spammer.

Cite? AFAIK, nobody has listed *you* as a spammer.

Is this really fare with you?

What is actually in UCEPROTECT is fair; it doesn't matter whether listing
you as a spammer is fair unless and until they actually do so.

Did you like it to be the same for yourselves?

If my provider gets listed then I will take it up with my provider.

What do you think we can do?

ObOfficerKrupke That for you to determine; UCEPROTECT is intended to be
for the benefit of the recipients, not the senders.

I recommend to not list Iranian ISPs in this listing.

I can recommend to not list Chinese, Korean or US providers, but they'll
pay as much attention to my recommendation as to yours. They will continue
listing based on what hits their spam traps, and that's how it should be
unless and until they change their published policies. If those policies
don't fit your needs, then don't use their list.
--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, truly insane Spews puppet
<http://patriot.net/~shmuel>

I reserve the right to publicly post or ridicule any abusive
E-mail. Reply to domain Patriot dot net user shmuel+news to contact
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